=== ANCHOR POEM === ═══════════════════════════════════════════════════════──────────────────────────── @user-570 have you ever wanted to design your own MMO? If you think you can make a client, there's a server already set up which interfaces with World of Warcraft. So... the hardest part is done, and suddenly the rest is about as hard as making any other game. The reason I ask is because there's no open-source client for the WoW engine server software Azerothcore, but if written then there could be a whole new field of indie design as solo developers would be able to build their own multiplayer games with ease. well, as easy as making a game in Godot at least. That's the dream. I don't think I could build such an engine, but I spend an awful lot of time thinking about how engines are built. There's a lot of freedom in the design space, for example this mod server I made which emulates Risk of Rain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HsW4g2ZIgk It has randomized enemies, treasure chests, wandering vendors, and deployable hearthstones. If you've played WoW that stuff might ring a bell, otherwise it's probably just random features ┌─────────┐ ┌───────────┐ │ similar │ chronological │ different │ ╘═════════╧╧════════════════════════════════════════════════───────────────────────────┘ === SIMILARITY RANKED === --- #1 fediverse/4877 --- ════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════─────────────────── you can make a functional prototype for almost any game in Warcraft 3's map editor that's why no real-time strategy game ever made an editor as good again FPS editors peaked at Unreal Tournament 2004 imho RPGmaker eliminated a whole class of game design jobs platformers you can make in godot menu based games too, though Twine also works well for that etc etc until you have a prdouct that you can justify sinking money into an engine for (the engine isn't THAT expensive geez and it's the most fun part to write) yeah I think you got this backwards, we should pay for the CONTENT not the structure it lives in. Why not just use godot? why not use a Warcraft 3 map? there are some things you can't do in Warcraft 3. You couldn't make Supreme Commander, probably, at least it wouldn't be as good. etc etc that's how it goes... game design, amiright? I miss thinking about that. Anyway gtg gotta log off for a bit [101 characters remaining] ┌─────────┐ ┌───────────┐ │ similar │ chronological │ different │ ╘═════════╧╧═════════════════════════════════════════════════════════──────────────────┘ --- #2 notes/coh-waves-of-playerbases --- ══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════───────────────────────── imagine if there was a stacking inf bonus to players who played on red / blueside which increased or decreased depending on either A. the number of players online at the time, B. the proportion of players playing on that team versus the other, or C. the time of day. Essentially helping to cure the faction imbalance by offering rewards to one side or the other which would encourage a certain group in the population of the game to change sides or not. perhaps frequent changing could grant a title called "mercenary" or something like "log in for each consecutive day for 10 days straight and each day switch faction alignment at least once" ... anyway you could cure the faction imbalance between redside / blueside by offering an INF reward for playing on each side one by one alternating like an iterator first red then blue or first blue then red either way it doesn't matter because it'll switch after a while and encourage everyone to switch sides. And the way the character responds to that stimulus tells you a bit about their character's personality. also... it should not affect AE or Pocket D farms. Nor missions, TFs, or anything else. they should SOLELY impact open world patrolling / hunting. I believe this would not only incentivize people to spend time in the open world (which is a mostly unused piece of game assets) but it would also increase the visibility of the newly bolstered faction numbers. Think about it - if everyone who switched sides is out in the open world, then they could see each other. They could fight the same mobs, and team up together. In doing so, they could form greater and greater supergroups - if only through their interactions with one another as they level up. If they're lucky, the guild they're recruited into has similar interests in mind like doing raiding or PvP or economics or alts or whatever. And they each have their own different styles of operating, it's soooo cute. Like alt guilds will pop up and then migrate to a new one as people make new alts and grow tired of them at higher levels. It's great. I love MMOs! I wish people put half as much effort into making an open source WoW client that they do programming game engines like Godot or Raylib or Bevy. If such a thing was created, we could have a new rennaisance in indie MMO development. It would become fully non-proprietary, the entire game-platform-stack. Meaning anyone could create their own MMO off of it, because (crucially) the serverside soft- -ware has already been reverse engineered. And open sourced. Seriously. You wanna make as much bank as Steam? Make an open source client that lets you design while in it. Then you could charge people for all the games that they played that were designed and hosted by you the content designing software maker. ... okay it's probably not that simple I'm going to go play Unreal Tournament2k4 ` ┌─────────┐ ┌───────────┐ │ similar │ chronological │ different │ ╘═════════╧╧═══════════════════════════════════════════════════────────────────────────┘ --- #3 fediverse/3039 --- ═══════════════════════════════════════════════════════──────────────────────────── @user-570 I'd LOVE a game which taught toki pona!! You've brought some of this up before. I'm uninterested in co-opting some existing thing in a way I then can't support myself off of. Well my points are these: MMOs are difficult because of the added complexity in their networking an open source networking solution exists however no open source client solution exists but one could be written, which is about as hard as making a game using Bevy or Raylib or Love2D, and if one were written, then games could easily be made on-top of them which you would then support yourself off of. I mean... I'd want to support myself too haha, and I can think of like 100 different games that could be made in an engine like that. the idea is that by opening up more design space you can apply your ideas as an early pioneer in a particular design direction that hasn't been able to be explored because the up-front investments in making an MMO are huge. Meanwhile, with this system you could script them in Lua very easily. ┌─────────┐ ┌───────────┐ │ similar │ chronological │ different │ ╘═════════╧╧════════════════════════════════════════════════───────────────────────────┘ --- #4 fediverse/5900 --- ══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════───────── I love programming, but I'm not a coder. you burn witches because you JUST CAN'T HANDLE THEM ANYMORE. I know, I get it. of course I do. I'm always so concerned that someone might stumble upon me. that they might read me. what a vulnerable state, to be afraid?! I really really really really wanna play world of warcraft my message to blissard is: treat World of Warcraft like a game engine, not a theme park please. I mean, the theme park should still exist, because it's neat but... the rest of the game engine could be used to create essentially anything with a 3rd person camera. singleplayer doesn't even need to worry about clipping animations. (lag) I wonder if you could run World of Warcraft on lowest settings in vanilla burning crusade or wrath of the lich king? good thing those are open source now, so you can host your own if you want. well, except the client, but nobody has bothered to write another one besides the owner and primary developers of the engine. movement system plugins? data memory?~~~ ┌─────────┐ ┌───────────┐ │ similar │ chronological │ different │ ╘═════════╧╧═══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════────────┘ --- #5 fediverse/3063 --- ═══════════════════════════════════════════════════════──────────────────────────── @user-570 true. the "massively multiplayer" aspect of WoW is about as important to the game as the "A" is in "ARPG". I can't help but feel like the "impromptu groups" functionality feels a bit better than matchmaker instancing... though anything worth running a group for in WoW after TBC was instanced >.> Honestly I think there's just too many games these days for people to really get "into" MMORPGs, unless they're sufficiently unique in their mechanics (like EVE or Runescape) any ARPG MMOs are dead on launch, as you said. That design space is tapped out, at least for now, until someone comes along and makes it a deckbuilding roguelike or whatever. cough cough ┌─────────┐ ┌───────────┐ │ similar │ chronological │ different │ ╘═════════╧╧════════════════════════════════════════════════───────────────────────────┘ --- #6 fediverse/1003 --- ═══════════════════════════════════════════════──────────────────────────────────── @user-735 I made a World of Warcraft private server where all the default NPCs are removed from the game and the world is empty. But, every once in a while, monsters will spawn and attack you Risk of Rain style. If your character sits down, they stop attacking/spawning. I call it "wow-chat" because I'm bad with names, but the idea is basically a low stakes social game that you can pick up and set down whenever you want, while hanging out with your friends. there's also treasure and wandering merchants, and I've been thinking about adding dynamic quests but so far nobody's asked to play it so I've been working on other things. it's all open source too so you can host it yourself if you want. ┌─────────┐ ┌───────────┐ │ similar │ chronological │ different │ ╘═════════╧╧════════════════════════════════════════───────────────────────────────────┘ --- #7 fediverse/33 --- ═══════════════════════════════════──────────────────────────────────────────────── ┌───────────────────────┐ │ CW: World of Warcraft │ └───────────────────────┘ I thought it'd be cool if there was a chat program where you could play a little multiplayer game together and so long story short I'm now working on a WoW server. The idea is to remove all the monsters and quests and such and just let people chat to each other. They'd be able to go wherever they want (choosing a background) and wear whatever clothes they want (creating an avatar) and then they could just chat IRC style. But then I thought "ah but what if it spawned in monsters" so I'm planning on making it randomly spawn packs of monsters that are of the appropriate level every 30 seconds or whatever (as long as the previous one was defeated of course) so that people can mess around fighting things while they talk with their friends. But it'd be optional. AND THEN I thought "hey IRC is kinda 90s what if we made a Matrix bridge" so I'm also working on that. Wish me luck. ┌─────────┐ ┌───────────┐ │ similar │ chronological │ different │ ╘═════════╧╧════════════════════════════───────────────────────────────────────────────┘ --- #8 fediverse/3040 --- ═══════════════════════════════════════════════════════──────────────────────────── @user-570 that sounds like a different application than what I was talking about (it's for the the MMO you mentioned right?) and I'm just going off of what I've heard. Like... the "don't make an MMO because you'll spend forever building the server code and won't ever get around to making the actual game" sentiment that is prevalent in the industry. I guess I'm just saying that with the open source advancements we've made (specifically with Azerothcore and Eluna) we can use the design of the best MMO ever made as a starting point and branch off from there roughly as easily as making another kind of game from scratch. Kinda was always the allure of Blizzard games to me, the idea that they were super duper modable. ┌─────────┐ ┌───────────┐ │ similar │ chronological │ different │ ╘═════════╧╧════════════════════════════════════════════════───────────────────────────┘ --- #9 fediverse/4908 --- ════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════─────────────────── did you know someone once built a 1st person shooter in the Warcraft III mod suite? someone also made an entirely new game engine similar to Neverwinter Night's (or Baldur's Gate for you noobs) inside of the game. You could join a Warcraft 3 map and start playing a D&D adventure narrated, controlled, and prepared by your DM, D&D style. Like a virtual tabletop before that was a thing. kinda wish stuff like that was open source, or at least open standards, so people could take those adventures with them. ┌─────────┐ ┌───────────┐ │ similar │ chronological │ different │ ╘═════════╧╧═════════════════════════════════════════════════════════──────────────────┘ --- #10 fediverse/5212 --- ════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════─────────────── the reason you start with a game engine is because then you'll have tools to make however-many games you want. Tools that you know intimately enough that you can debug and improve them without breaking your creative flow by learning something new halfway through a project the whole point of individualized projects instead of viewing each computer as a complete and total whole (why do we need servers again?) is that you can paint a picture of where the design of the program is intended to go, such that all the considerations are in place and whatever issues or struggles you might face along the way are adequately addresssed, -- stack overflow -- [because I mistyped addressed] -- -- if you know what "stack overflow" means you have intimate knowledge of the technology, and can probably guess what it means in context when I say it. "nuts I lost that train of thoguht" -- stackl ov ┌─────────┐ ┌───────────┐ │ similar │ chronological │ different │ ╘═════════╧╧═════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════──────────────┘ --- #11 fediverse/465 --- ═════════════════════════════════════════════────────────────────────────────────── ┌───────────────────────┐ │ CW: cursing-mentioned │ └───────────────────────┘ https://ritz-menardi.neocities.org/wow-chat/wow-chat Hey, I made a pretty simple game. I'd like to add more to it, like dynamic quests (shouldn't be too hard) and co-operative experiences, but for now you can play on my simple server. Let me know if you think that "Risk of Rain in the World of Warcraft engine" is a neat game, because if so then you (as the person who has power over me in this capitalist system) can hire me as a game designer (the profession that most aligns with my designs of the future) and together we could make something most beautiful. What's that? You're just the same as you and I? A person in a random world with a singular expression of our own will (defined by our perception and intentions) who consists of the consequences of the "best decisions we could have made at each and ever decision-making point" throughout the totality of our collective life and experience? Happy new years. 2024 is gonna be awesome and great. I can't fucking wait. ┌─────────┐ ┌───────────┐ │ similar │ chronological │ different │ ╘═════════╧╧══════════════════════════════════════─────────────────────────────────────┘ --- #12 fediverse/659 --- ═════════════════════════════════════════════────────────────────────────────────── [you should play some games] (oh! yes I like games, they're very much fun ^_^ ^_^) {world of warcraft? I've got my own server, I designed it myself. There's a lot of cool things about it and waaaaaay more that I'd like to add. Problem is, building things is haaaaaard. If only we had an AI machine to do it for us, instead of waiting for a team that was assigned capital by capital to accomplish the destination that they deseigned as perhaps to our desired location (mainly, the propagation and promulgation of profit-ous lust)} sorry the witch started talking halfway through that idk where exactly anyway point is I'm going to play WoW now brb ┌─────────┐ ┌───────────┐ │ similar │ chronological │ different │ ╘═════════╧╧══════════════════════════════════════─────────────────────────────────────┘ --- #13 messages/846 --- ═══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════──────────────── Blizzard should make more than one animation style for swinging your weapon - as you level up, the style "tweens" between however many combat palettes you made. So, like, maybe they swing their sword +/-15 degrees each time to simulate the pseudo random nature of combat. Or maybe they start occasionally stepping into a maneuver Which the player doesn't consciously control. Instinct, if you will. The body reacting to its [sensory organs, but pronounced "surveyor"] Anyway i think by adjusting the monster characters in WoW should wander around and gather within sight of a player. Seeking you out, waiting for a critical threshold of their peers. Then, when you allowed or slowed down to examine a bit of "this-or-here", (quests) they would gang up on you and ambush! Bwaha just watch out for the mob (kinda like that scene in the second book of The Book of Malazan series where they're wandering through a desert storm and meeting all sorts of strange sorts of people) Anyway in seeking to improve the player's view-time, i decided it would feel the most impactful to do the design related things related to things like making the gameplay the most visceral. ┌─────────┐ ┌───────────┐ │ similar │ chronological │ different │ ╘═════════╧╧════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════───────────────┘ --- #14 fediverse/2126 --- ╔═════════════════════════════════════════════════════─────────────────────────────┐ ║ There was this great game growing up called Neverwinter Nights 2 - I never │ ║ really played it, but it was renowned for it's map-editor functionality. You │ ║ could join a person's "game", when really they were in the editor window, and │ ║ they could BUILD THE GAME RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU. It was like, computer skill │ ║ performance gameplay improv. It was beautiful. │ ║ │ ║ I did, however, play a Warcraft 3 mod with all the same ideas. Except, it was │ ║ ONLY IN RAM. YOU COULD NOT SAVE. │ ║ │ ║ so it was a lot simpler, and O M G it was the coolest thing ever. │ ║ │ ║ I played it like, twice though. Nobody ever hosted it, nobody ever showed me │ ║ how. │ ║ │ ║ I tried to play it single-player, but I couldn't understand the mechanics. Not │ ║ simple enough for me, I guess. │ ║ │ ║ I couldn't help but think how many cool games a person could make if they │ ║ could do that with the Warcraft 3 editor itself. │ ║ │ ║ Because I did work with that, a lot, which was NOT in RAM, but instead stored │ ║ to the hard drive. │ ║ │ ║ Hard drives which I've since lost, of course, but drop me in and I know ho │ ╟─────────┐ ┌───────────┤ ║ similar │ chronological │ different │ ╚═════════╧══════════════════════════════════════════──────────────────┴──────────┘ --- #15 fediverse/940 --- ═══════════════════════════════════════════════──────────────────────────────────── @user-652 just made a game for GGJ in Godot and I have to agree. Godot is so frustrating, but one thing I have to concede is that once you get your head around it the GUI part is actually incredibly powerful. My next game I'm going to make in Raylib, and if the UI bit proves too difficult I'll probably end up back at Godot. ┌─────────┐ ┌───────────┐ │ similar │ chronological │ different │ ╘═════════╧╧════════════════════════════════════════───────────────────────────────────┘ --- #16 notes/supreme-commander-appeal --- ═════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════────────────────── a game like supreme commander but fantasy themed and each unit used a special move everytime their mana was full and there were spellcasters who restored mana to targets to increase their power or, hear me out, or, just do that in wowchat I betcha could do it I bet it would be fun as hell please? as a favor to yourself? build the game you want to see and it'll get done please -- stack overflow -- your journals were originally a way for you to remember what to think, remember? old projects meant to show you light and life remember? you are alone in this soul act like it's your own celebrate your period of mental denial as a refraction of your infinite travaille which lasts for quite a good long while have you ever dreamed of the nile? -- stack overflow -- if a doorway takes you to the fae, then where does a river bring you? like raindrops on the floor, racing for an eternity's splendor. what does the rainbow think, as it's cast from the prismatic orb? are each photons aware? bouncing between stars light is beautiful and large beloved by all revered by one ephemeren the totality of all things ------------------ ┌─────────┐ ┌───────────┐ │ similar │ chronological │ different │ ╘═════════╧╧══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════─────────────────┘ --- #17 fediverse/281 --- ╔═══════════════════════════════════════════───────────────────────────────────────┐ ║ ┌─────────────────────────────┐ │ ║ │ CW: cursed-game-engine-idea │ │ ║ └─────────────────────────────┘ │ ║ │ ║ │ ║ a game engine which won't let you import custom assets unless you complete a │ ║ few simple tasks using the interface - "build a green capsule collider" "make │ ║ this soldier unit shoot three bullets per shot" or "enable the automatic linux │ ║ support" - using the interface, writing some code, and changing configurations. │ ║ │ ║ why would anyone do this? well it could be useful to increase the difficulty │ ║ of importing external resources. plus it helps the user learn a bit over time, │ ║ and it slows the pace of output such that the user's skills are encouraged as │ ║ the output of the programming and not the program itself. │ ║ │ ║ an inverse curse (an evil one) would be where the requirements to complete │ ║ basic tasks are hidden behind unapplicable skills. like, do you know exactly │ ║ which buttons to press? engage with the skinner box, please. yes yes this is │ ║ what we need - unintuitive software that completely disarms the populace from │ ║ using them! suddenly they're worthless, and can't do anything on any surface. │ ║ it sucks │ ╟─────────┐ ┌───────────┤ ║ similar │ chronological │ different │ ╚═════════╧════════════════════════════════────────────────────────────┴──────────┘ --- #18 fediverse/1116 --- ╔═══════════════════════════════════════════════───────────────────────────────────┐ ║ ┌──────────────────────┐ │ ║ │ CW: eye-contact │ │ ║ └──────────────────────┘ │ ║ │ ║ │ ║ It's important to build self-hostable computing components of video games (as │ ║ in, old style games where you could host a server on any machine instead of │ ║ just the ones owned by the corporation) (as in, your machine, yes yours) │ ║ (something you can control and observe, something within your control) │ ║ │ ║ ======================= stack overflow ===================== │ ║ │ ║ there are two ways to play Unreal Tournament (capture the flag) gamemode. The │ ║ first is to run past all your enemies and fire at them as you pass, which is │ ║ what some of the bots are designed to do. The rest stay on defence, and defeat │ ║ any enemies that approach. │ ║ │ ║ however, they never push the borders of their "territory" forward - each │ ║ according to the different "lanes" or "directions of approach" │ ║ │ ║ I like the use 32 bots, to simulate a more consistent gameplay experience. It │ ║ feels more like ww1, fighting over ground, pushing forward and attempting to │ ║ outmaneuver your foes. │ ║ │ ║ some allies will approach from behind, and you let them pass forward while │ ╟─────────┐ ┌───────────┤ ║ similar │ chronological │ different │ ╚═════════╧════════════════════════════════════────────────────────────┴──────────┘ --- #19 fediverse/4096 --- ╔══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════────────────────────────┐ ║ ┌────────────────────────┐ │ ║ │ CW: opinionated-design │ │ ║ └────────────────────────┘ │ ║ │ ║ │ ║ Steps to make a game waterfall style: │ ║ │ ║ Lay out all the data structures and arrange them in containers like arrays or │ ║ hashmaps │ ║ │ ║ Build methods which manipulate those structures (think getters and setters) │ ║ │ ║ Then build machinery which operates upon those structures using those methods, │ ║ like game loops, cooldown timers, status effects, and thread pools. │ ║ │ ║ Then develop a way to present it to the player using UIs, visuals and │ ║ graphics, narratives, sound, etc. This will probably involve implementing your │ ║ game in an engine like Godot, Raylib, or Bevy. │ ║ │ ║ By developing your game in this order, you will DESIGN the systems first, and │ ║ IMPLEMENT them second. Systems are agnostic - implementation is tied to a │ ║ specific engine. You will learn more about programming by doing it this way, │ ║ instead of losing your motivation by learning new tools like game engines or │ ║ 3D modeling systems, which aren't useful unless you already have a game. │ ║ │ ║ I'd recommend starting with pencil and paper until you're ready to implement. │ ╟─────────┐ ┌───────────┤ ║ similar │ chronological │ different │ ╚═════════╧═══════════════════════════════════════════════─────────────┴──────────┘ --- #20 fediverse/2435 --- ══════════════════════════════════════════════════════───────────────────────────── @user-570 hehe yeah if you've played World of Warcraft, this one might seem more doable. All the assets are already there! https://ritz-menardi.neocities.org/design/wow-server.txt also, you can't sell it because it's other people's assets, but, like, who cares right? The serverside code is already built and open-source, the only thing that is proprietary is the art assets and the client. And the IP I guess. ┌─────────┐ ┌───────────┐ │ similar │ chronological │ different │ ╘═════════╧╧═══════════════════════════════════════════════────────────────────────────┘ |