=== ANCHOR POEM ===
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@user-570
true. the "massively multiplayer" aspect of WoW is about as important to the
game as the "A" is in "ARPG".
I can't help but feel like the "impromptu groups" functionality feels a bit
better than matchmaker instancing... though anything worth running a group for
in WoW after TBC was instanced >.>
Honestly I think there's just too many games these days for people to really
get "into" MMORPGs, unless they're sufficiently unique in their mechanics
(like EVE or Runescape)
any ARPG MMOs are dead on launch, as you said. That design space is tapped
out, at least for now, until someone comes along and makes it a deckbuilding
roguelike or whatever. cough cough
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=== SIMILARITY RANKED ===
--- #1 fediverse/3047 ---
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@user-570
specifically in relation to MMOs, I think the scaling aspects of the genre
have never truly been utilized. Even something as simple as Agar.io (or
similar, can't remember any names teehee) with massive amounts of people (I
later learned they were bots, whoops) can utilize scale quite well, if
implemented well.
The Massive part of MMO is valuable I believe, which is a big reason why I
like games that scale like Supreme Commander and Factorio.
The Multiplayer part of MMO is valuable because multiplayer brings randomized
outcomes, which are always more fun than playing against bots. Multiplayer
combined with Massive gives room for community, but only if the game is
designed to encourage it.
Online... you can't have multiplayer without online haha
I believe you can make massive games with very few players, and you can make
intensely isolating games with lots of players (like WoW today)
and the middle ground in old WoW where guilds are required to do anything
worked well for a while, but no longer.
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--- #2 fediverse/3039 ---
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@user-570
I'd LOVE a game which taught toki pona!!
You've brought some of this up before. I'm uninterested in co-opting some
existing thing in a way I then can't support myself off of.
Well my points are these:
MMOs are difficult because of the added complexity in their networking
an open source networking solution exists
however no open source client solution exists
but one could be written, which is about as hard as making a game using Bevy
or Raylib or Love2D, and if one were written, then games could easily be made
on-top of them which you would then support yourself off of. I mean... I'd
want to support myself too haha, and I can think of like 100 different games
that could be made in an engine like that.
the idea is that by opening up more design space you can apply your ideas as
an early pioneer in a particular design direction that hasn't been able to be
explored because the up-front investments in making an MMO are huge.
Meanwhile, with this system you could script them in Lua very easily.
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--- #3 fediverse/4877 ---
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you can make a functional prototype for almost any game in Warcraft 3's map
editor
that's why no real-time strategy game ever made an editor as good again
FPS editors peaked at Unreal Tournament 2004 imho
RPGmaker eliminated a whole class of game design jobs
platformers you can make in godot
menu based games too, though Twine also works well for that
etc etc until you have a prdouct that you can justify sinking money into an
engine for
(the engine isn't THAT expensive geez and it's the most fun part to write)
yeah I think you got this backwards, we should pay for the CONTENT not the
structure it lives in. Why not just use godot? why not use a Warcraft 3 map?
there are some things you can't do in Warcraft 3. You couldn't make Supreme
Commander, probably, at least it wouldn't be as good.
etc etc that's how it goes...
game design, amiright? I miss thinking about that. Anyway gtg gotta log off
for a bit [101 characters remaining]
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--- #4 fediverse/5900 ---
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I love programming, but I'm not a coder.
you burn witches because you JUST CAN'T HANDLE THEM ANYMORE. I know, I get it.
of course I do.
I'm always so concerned that someone might stumble upon me. that they might
read me. what a vulnerable state, to be afraid?!
I really really really really wanna play world of warcraft
my message to blissard is: treat World of Warcraft like a game engine, not a
theme park please. I mean, the theme park should still exist, because it's neat
but... the rest of the game engine could be used to create essentially
anything with a 3rd person camera.
singleplayer doesn't even need to worry about clipping animations. (lag)
I wonder if you could run World of Warcraft on lowest settings in vanilla
burning crusade or wrath of the lich king? good thing those are open source
now, so you can host your own if you want. well, except the client, but nobody
has bothered to write another one besides the owner and primary developers of
the engine.
movement system plugins? data memory?~~~
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--- #5 notes/supreme-commander-appeal ---
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a game like supreme commander but fantasy themed and each unit used a special
move everytime their mana was full and there were spellcasters who restored
mana to targets to increase their power
or, hear me out, or, just do that in wowchat
I betcha could do it
I bet it would be fun as hell
please?
as a favor to yourself?
build the game you want to see
and it'll get done
please
-- stack overflow --
your journals were originally a way for you to remember what to think,
remember?
old projects meant to show you light and life
remember?
you are alone in this soul
act like it's your own
celebrate your period of mental denial
as a refraction of your infinite travaille
which lasts for quite a good long while
have you ever dreamed of the nile?
-- stack overflow --
if a doorway takes you to the fae, then where does a river bring you?
like raindrops on the floor, racing for an eternity's splendor.
what does the rainbow think, as it's cast from the prismatic orb?
are each photons aware?
bouncing between stars
light is beautiful and large
beloved by all
revered by one
ephemeren
the totality of all things
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--- #6 fediverse/2030 ---
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Building community without structure is kinda like being a quest-giving
non-player character in World of Warcraft.
I don't mean that you stand around waiting for a player to wander nearby
before shouting at them to do what you want. Not like that.
Building community without structure is more like meeting someone randomly,
knowing them for longer than a bus ride or a baseball game, and once you've
decided that they're cool saying "hey there's someone you might like to meet."
If they're into it, then talk to the other person, and see if they want to
make a new friend. Try not to recommend someone who has a lot on their mind.
If they hit it off, great!
If not, oh well!
Worst case scenario the coffee shop only sells two drinks.
If you're gregarious enough, after a while you might even have enough people
for a potluck. Just don't forget to keep adding, and eventually it'll start to
feel more communal.
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--- #7 fediverse/982 ---
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@user-707 @user-708
using this to control the buttons in VRchat would be like a person with a
prosthetic interacting with real life :O
minus the physicality of course, but that's next.
can't wait to play Warcraft 3 and think "select all healers" so I can point
them at a dying unit with my mouse.
or world of warcraft where your rotation begins to feel like a song.
maybe even a text-based adventure, where you reading the text corresponds to
the results of the simulation, https://www.spreeder.com/app.php style. could
make it so that if you wanted something else to happen, you had to willfully
think it while the words are flashing in front of your eyes - the game would
pause if you blinked, perfect for phones btw...
could be a locally networked thing, like four to six people hanging out and
playing a game like pictionary or charades. except, a story that developed,
and whoever wanted could change it while everyone was reading it at once.
sorta like a competition to see who can make the best twists and false endings
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--- #8 messages/846 ---
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Blizzard should make more than one animation style for swinging your weapon -
as you level up, the style "tweens" between however many combat palettes you
made.
So, like, maybe they swing their sword +/-15 degrees each time to simulate the
pseudo random nature of combat.
Or maybe they start occasionally stepping into a maneuver
Which the player doesn't consciously control.
Instinct, if you will. The body reacting to its [sensory organs, but
pronounced "surveyor"]
Anyway i think by adjusting the monster characters in WoW should wander around
and gather within sight of a player. Seeking you out, waiting for a critical
threshold of their peers. Then, when you allowed or slowed down to examine a
bit of "this-or-here", (quests) they would gang up on you and ambush! Bwaha
just watch out for the mob
(kinda like that scene in the second book of The Book of Malazan series where
they're wandering through a desert storm and meeting all sorts of strange
sorts of people)
Anyway in seeking to improve the player's view-time, i decided it would feel
the most impactful to do the design related things related to things like
making the gameplay the most visceral.
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--- #9 fediverse/5231 ---
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║ the biggest lie of Warcraft is that the nations of Azeroth wouldn't find │
║ common ground while fighting each other over peace. │
║ │
║ Maybe a Tauren or Night Elf wanted to fight for the Horde. Or perhaps a Goblin │
║ and a Human decide to strike out on their own, making their own little auction │
║ house for their guild of adventurers and author-engineers who wrote quests and │
║ dialogue in a DM sorta way │
║ │
║ [oh great she's describing another Azerothcore server that nobody's gonna make │
║ ever because if they did then they'd waste time on someone else's property] │
║ │
║ how's that custom engine coming along? │
║ │
║ ... still uses prototype art? are you kidding me? ah, well, okay, let's write │
║ it off as a loss. │
║ │
║ what do you mean technical debt? I don't understand why you can't just pay it │
║ off and move on. We gotta keep up, I heard so-and-so's got this-or-that │
║ feature that is killer in the press. Yeah, killer. Like it's so goodcool it'd │
║ kill us if it saw us walking alone at night in a skimpy dress. Huh? That │
║ doesn't happen to you? Ah well this glo │
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--- #10 fediverse/35 ---
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│ CW: game design, MMOs │
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Look all I'm saying is all the people who say "oh you shouldn't make an MMO
for your first game" clearly have never heard of Azerothcore. Literally as
long as you don't sell it you can make the MMO of your dreams crazy easily.
You can script it in LUA for crying out loud.
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--- #11 fediverse/770 ---
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@user-192
wow, that sounds like a lot. I guess no matter how humans are organized they
tend to fight a lot... Or maybe interaction breeds drama? It's strange to me
but I'm sure it felt right in the moment. I hope nobody's feelings were too
hurt... Defederation feels like such a permanent thing, like putting someone
on your ignore list in a video game or something. Except, like, blocking a
whole World of Warcraft guild? ? ? so strange.
Did it... help? I mean, do you think people were happier afterwards?
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--- #12 fediverse/1238 ---
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║ did you know you can run runescape classic offline, locally, just for your own │
║ server? You can keep several computers ready for a LAN party, each with their │
║ own accounts ready to go. │
║ │
║ "Oh we're level 30 this time because so-and-so is hosting and this is how far │
║ their computer has levelled up." │
║ │
║ vim ~/games/runescape-classic/credentials.txt │
║ │
║ at least, I think you can. I know it's singleplayer, so worst case scenario │
║ you can all be doing the same things at the same time in your own games. Maybe │
║ split up for a mission or two, but it can get hectic if everyone's in the same │
║ room. │
║ │
║ = │
║ │
║ a game jam where everyone works on the same project, uses the same asset list, │
║ but builds their own collection of minigames. │
║ │
║ common functions could be shared, and art references distributed and together │
║ they could design a whole land. Like, there's no reason minigames can't be │
║ fully fledged experiences. You can have as many as you want, all in the same │
║ engine and built from a massive (yet sandboxed) environment. │
║ │
║ an all in one game. │
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--- #13 fediverse/3037 ---
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@user-570
have you ever wanted to design your own MMO? If you think you can make a
client, there's a server already set up which interfaces with World of
Warcraft. So... the hardest part is done, and suddenly the rest is about as
hard as making any other game.
The reason I ask is because there's no open-source client for the WoW engine
server software Azerothcore, but if written then there could be a whole new
field of indie design as solo developers would be able to build their own
multiplayer games with ease.
well, as easy as making a game in Godot at least. That's the dream. I don't
think I could build such an engine, but I spend an awful lot of time thinking
about how engines are built.
There's a lot of freedom in the design space, for example this mod server I
made which emulates Risk of Rain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HsW4g2ZIgk
It has randomized enemies, treasure chests, wandering vendors, and deployable
hearthstones. If you've played WoW that stuff might ring a bell, otherwise
it's probably just random features
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--- #14 fediverse/4908 ---
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did you know someone once built a 1st person shooter in the Warcraft III mod
suite?
someone also made an entirely new game engine similar to Neverwinter Night's
(or Baldur's Gate for you noobs) inside of the game. You could join a Warcraft
3 map and start playing a D&D adventure narrated, controlled, and prepared
by your DM, D&D style. Like a virtual tabletop before that was a thing.
kinda wish stuff like that was open source, or at least open standards, so
people could take those adventures with them.
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║ you're supposed to play the same games as your friends so that you all learn │
║ the same lessons at the same times. creates for a more cohesive familiar │
║ structure. │
║ │
║ applies also to family movie nights... but it's much more apparent with games │
║ as you'll often play them for weeks, months, and sometimes even years if you │
║ keep learning and enjoying them... book clubs are too open to interpretation, │
║ your pathways don't get a chance to align. games are perfect because they │
║ imply reaction. │
║ │
║ also helps if they're multiplayer, so you can share with another. preferably │
║ with healthy, respectful competition and a sense of shared brotherhood and │
║ trust. │
║ │
║ the toughest opponents are the ones that aren't aggressive. the ones that let │
║ you grow uncontested. by taking only neutral resources they guarantee that │
║ your growth isn't impeded, as after all an equal foe is what you learn best │
║ from. │
║ │
║ to a tree, the loss of a branch (cleanly cut) would feel like an empowering of │
║ the main limb. inspiring it to reach higher and beyond... +h2o1 │
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--- #16 fediverse/3040 ---
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@user-570
that sounds like a different application than what I was talking about (it's
for the the MMO you mentioned right?)
and I'm just going off of what I've heard. Like... the "don't make an MMO
because you'll spend forever building the server code and won't ever get
around to making the actual game" sentiment that is prevalent in the industry.
I guess I'm just saying that with the open source advancements we've made
(specifically with Azerothcore and Eluna) we can use the design of the best
MMO ever made as a starting point and branch off from there roughly as easily
as making another kind of game from scratch.
Kinda was always the allure of Blizzard games to me, the idea that they were
super duper modable.
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--- #17 notes/that-thing-about-money-is-power-corrupts-absolutely-true ---
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is that a blossoming bloom or a predatasaurus ready to consume
ah. scary.....
what was I saying? oh yes. if you remember that thing about money you'll have
to
agree, one buildion is not worth a billion dollars. how much is a
1,000,000,000$
goal? not much if you ask me, to never have to worry about a problem like "this
part of the world can't get clean water" ever again. Could be useful when sore
spots start showing up on the other part of way back [in/then].
"we didn't even get to use any of the plastic anyway" - some guys in nigeria
"quick, we better burn through as much of this as we can" - some guys around a
metal barrel bin why do they never do that anymore these days?
we used to take better care of the homeless. now they don't even get a fire to
shamble around mindlessly around like weirdos who bonk into things like metal
barrels full of fireplace ashes
oh, were they just burning plastic? no, I swear, it was candlesticks and
matches
man there's always this nasty touch to the air.
"yay free firewood for hobos!" boom solved a problem and I didn't even need a
billion dollars to build the infrastructure for the solution to the problem
that
I solved.
I really want to play World of Warcraft as The Ashbringer. But alas, they don't
let you play through the most celebrated of events solo or with a party members
chosen as one of the characters who was there LotR on Gamecube style but in the
WoW engine because it's an engine for that sort of thing. (see my gameplay
prototype wow-chat)
there, solved another problem for "how to make money as Blizzard for the next
couple of years" probably maybe idk if it's that valuable of a dungeon feature
but it might be who can say idk remember again why I'm so sad that video games
are going out of fashion, as people struggle to remember what any of them were
called.
god, I hate that kind of future.
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--- #18 fediverse/4897 ---
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what if we asked chatGPT to generate a list of every personality archetype
that humans have. Like... really get super specific and fill out the whole
list of character sheets.
then we give each fraction of it that fraction of dollars and if some people
aren't fully represented (because they have greater needs) then we both
increase production of resources and take a penalty on our own supply, in
order to meet the needs of our allies.
simplest thing. how could it work? who can say. maybe it won't. maybe it's
just... arcane. /shrug that's game design for ya you can't tell how it'll go
until it's in the hands of your players. too bad we don't do too many
play-things.
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--- #19 messages/29 ---
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The reason players don't talk on mics in Overwatch at low ranks is because
nobody else is. So they spend extra effort on tracking the enemy team that
could be supplied by team member call outs. Like "Reaper flanking right" or
"Hog no hook" or heck even "rezzing" and "15 seconds on rez" or "I have
[insert ultimate]"
That's all data they have to gather themselves, so it's extra brainpower that
can't be focused on the game because it's spent in other ways (namely by
listening to team call outs) and if you have 75% of your brain on just staying
alive and winning fights, then you'll have less brain power available both to
communicate and to listen and integrate communication. Like being aware of the
game state and positioning are all cerebral tasks and if your cerebral center
is so focused on short term reflex things like mechanical skill then there's
less available to allocate
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--- #20 fediverse/1003 ---
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@user-735
I made a World of Warcraft private server where all the default NPCs are
removed from the game and the world is empty. But, every once in a while,
monsters will spawn and attack you Risk of Rain style.
If your character sits down, they stop attacking/spawning. I call it
"wow-chat" because I'm bad with names, but the idea is basically a low stakes
social game that you can pick up and set down whenever you want, while hanging
out with your friends.
there's also treasure and wandering merchants, and I've been thinking about
adding dynamic quests but so far nobody's asked to play it so I've been
working on other things.
it's all open source too so you can host it yourself if you want.
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